CPM Forum
General => General Forum Comments => Topic started by: rxcory on August 14, 2025, 01:36:50 pm
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There has been discussion over the years of the ongoing structural shift by banks, e-commerce giants, big tech, governments and central banks, and now the crypto industry to do away with cash. Most recently, walktothewater mentioned BTCA, the UK-based "Better Than Cash Alliance" lobby group.
In the 1980s, due to deregulation and lucrative interest rates and fees, banks started mass-marketing credit cards to the public. The move away from cash continued in the 1990s as debit cards became mainstream, along with point-of-sale (POS) terminals. Cash (and cheques) became increasingly seen as "outdated."
By the 2000s, online retailers and payment platforms like Amazon, eBay and PayPal continued the push, as online transactions depended on digital payments. Rewards programmes grew, which incentivized using cards over cash. In the 2010s, services like Square and Toast proliferated, which allowed restaurants, small businesses, and individuals to accept digital POS card payments without expensive equipment.
There have been various factions behind the move away from cash over the years. In the beginning it was the banks, credit card networks, and large retailers. Then along came the e-commerce giants, hedge fund investors, and Fintech startups ("buy now, pay later" offers) who wanted a fat slice of the high-growth, high-profit digital payment industry. Governments and tax agencies were not promoting the move at first, but they certainly benefited from digital transaction records for audits.
2025 is proving to be an epic year for the digital payment industry, with the passage of the GENIUS act in the US, which was supported by a coalition of major banks, Fintech firms, the crypto industry, and investors, and which notably passed with bipartisan support. The act will allow banks and retailers to launch their own stablecoins, that they can then issue to customers instead of cash. A few important provisions/goals/outcomes of the law noted in the article below are (A) the elimination of cash, and (B) to allow banks and retailers to keep the interest, as stablecoins accrue no interest. Notably, (C) stablecoins are not FDIC insured (analogous to the CDIC), as they are classified as "investments" and not deposits. The large banks are envisioning a future (D) where transactions are conducted exclusively using bank-issued stablecoins as an alternative to cash or cards.
This eye-opening article in today's New York Times almost made me spit out my morning coffee. The article is behind a paywall, but if you're a subscriber I highly recommend it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/14/briefing/how-cryptocurrency-could-be-coming-for-your-bank-account.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/14/briefing/how-cryptocurrency-could-be-coming-for-your-bank-account.html)
Discussion question 1: To what extent, if any, do you still use cash?
Discussion question 2: Do you intend to use cash any more or less in the future?
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Discussion question 1: I currently use about 90% electronic payments and 10% cash. I keep saying I need to use cash more often, but I feel like once you've fallen down this rabbit hole of convenience, it's hard to climb back out of it. My paycheques are electronically deposited. My rent can only be paid online (with a $5 processing fee each month) or by cheque. Unfortunately, once you've run out of paper cheques, paying to have more printed becomes a mental obstacle—but I should go this route anyway, out of principle, so as not to feed the online processing service. I also buy and sell a bit online, which obviously requires cashless transactions.
Discussion question 2: I intend to use cash more in the future. While the paycheque and online buying/selling will have to remain electronic, I'm going to start using cash for everyday transactions. I already do for small businesses (haircuts, dry cleaning, coin stores, etc.), but will start using it at grocery stores, restaurants, etc. It will be like time travel back to the 80s, going to the bank to withdraw cash when the wallet starts getting thin (lol).
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Discussion question 1: To what extent, if any, do you still use cash?
I use cash for small purchases or for tipping at restaurants. (Why should the taxman take away from a server's tips?)
I give physical cash gifts to my nieces and nephews because they are part of the "cashless" generation.
I also use cash for paying TTC fares (though this is becoming more difficult because of the reduced number of fare collectors in the subway).
I find it difficult to resist the lure of loyalty points on items such as gas or groceries, my two biggest expenditures so I pay for these on my credit card. The thing is, I use my credit card like cash and pay it fully each month so the credit card company makes nothing from me in interest.
I also still use paper cheques to pay my property taxes and a couple of other bills. However, recently there was the threat of a postal strike so I decided not to send my property taxes by cheque in the mail this time around, instead paying them in-person at the bank. :D
Discussion question 2: Do you intend to use cash any more or less in the future?
I will probably use about the same amount of cash as I do now, but I am making a conscious effort to use more $10 notes when I withdraw money from the bank.)
Dean
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Dean
All the old cash I bought off you over the last few years I give to the grandkids for Christmas and Birthdays :D
Docstrange
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I love (& hate) this topic b/c its been on my mind most of my life so I have been keenly aware of changes in cash use. I remember seeing a forum post 20 (or more) years ago regarding "society going cashless" & I was appalled. Using cash has always been a cornerstone to saving money (forcing myself under budget). I would never have bought/paid for my home as quickly as I did had I been a habitual CC user.
From most of my studies researching this topic cash has never been the dominant method of payment but always co-existed with credit (& other forms of payment). As far as I know, cash has been systematically attacked by a very powerful lobby group called the Better Than Cash Alliance. The BTCA (Gates, VISA, Paypal, the usual billionaire group) are also (unfortunately) sponsored by the UN & 20 odd nations.
My favourite video on the topic is this one:
https://youtu.be/GbECT1J9bXg?si=jlnaCh9sW4ZIIBya (https://youtu.be/GbECT1J9bXg?si=jlnaCh9sW4ZIIBya)
My position has always been similar to the crux of this video: cash & digital can co-exist so long as we make that happen.
To what extent I use cash?
Very difficult to say b/c it has become more challenging to use it. I cannot use it to pay most of my fees/bills but I do actively use it for most purchases. Almost all restaurant bills, etc. I try to use cash. Like I wrote earlier, I'm extremely sensitive to this topic so I'm always p'o'd if a retail outlet reduces cashiers & forces me to use CC. I have left Shoppers Drugmart many times due to no cashier available.
I also realize that digital payments have allowed me to build my paper money sets with several online purchases so i try not to "trash digital" even though the digital world seems to be busy "trashing cash!"
Do I intend to use more cash in the future?
That is my intent but I must admit it has become harder & harder (read my answer above). I feel that if we stop using cash then retail outlets (& bars/services) will stop allowing cash payments. I tried to pay cash at a Bluejays game & wasn't allowed (the entire dump only accepted CC). So while my intentions are good, businesses are NOT & are already transforming to digital. I understand this b/c cash is easier to steal (esp when you pay your employees dirt wages) & digital is easier for management to deal with.
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Discussion question 1: To what extent, if any, do you still use cash?
Yes I still use cash in everyday transaction but it depends on the situation like do I have cash in my wallet or is there a bank near me that I can withdraw cash but that isn't a problem as I live in a populated city so there's no problem accessing banks in the area. I try to limit debit transaction as using it have no benefit for me and I had to deal with multiple debit card fraud and dispute the transaction so that's the main reason why I rarely use my card and only use it for cash withdraws and card payment only if I need to.
Discussion question 2: Do you intend to use cash any more or less in the future?
Yes definitely, I heard online about cash usage is dwindling and people switching to digital payment and doing online transactions. I also heard on this forum about a organization that wants to get rid of cash and switch to online digital payment which I am not a big fan of. As I grow up, more places will be cashless but I will just take my business elsewhere if they don't accept cash payment and they lose out a customer.
Using Cash has many benefits for me and others like saving money, supporting local businesses from card fees, etc. I use cash and find many Commemorative coins in my change which gives me joy (I don't do coin roll hunting and rely on people to find it for me).
Also what Dean said about using cash to pay for the TTC Transit Agency. I agree of what you said as it's getting harder to pay with cash on the TTC but on the bus network it's very easy as you drop your coins into the farebox and get a paper transfer but when Line 5 (Eglinton) and Line 6 (Finch West) opens, there will be no farebox to deposit the coins as the stations are cashless and the only place you can use your coins to pay the fare is one of the Presto Vending Machine which sells Presto tickets and you pay with it to access the Line 5/Line 6 stations. I try to pay with cash when I use the TTC but I mostly use Presto Card as it's more convenience for me.
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Great replies so far, thanks. Dean makes some excellent points about cash tips, about giving cash as a gift to youngsters, and spreading $10 notes. Walktothewater is absolutely right; if we stop using cash, it will stop being accepted :( Thanks to TN56 for flipping the change dynamic upside down; I always hated having a pocket full of heavy coins, but I also like finding the surprise commemorative or silver coin.
I'm dreading the day cash is no longer accepted and we are told to take cash to the bank and exchange it for some kind of crypto in order to spend it. As walktothewater points out, the march towards cashless is already well underway, and once we're there, nothing will stop the "crypto bros" and billionaire investors from arguing that CAD, USD, EUR, JPY and all currencies are now obsolete. Walktothewater also correctly noted in an earlier post that the crypto bros love to argue that currencies are "just fiat money anyway," as if that somehow makes crypto more legitimate or secure. Of course it doesn't.
Wonderful insights so far. I'd love to hear ideas from more forum members.
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Thank you rxcory! I wonder how many forum members bothered to watch the DW Documentary (which eloquently captures the dilemma visually) in my last post. :'(
I started what I thought was a similar discussion 6 years ago, before the Covid/pandemic changed our world:
https://cdnpapermoney.com/index.php?topic=15522.msg67821#msg67821 (https://cdnpapermoney.com/index.php?topic=15522.msg67821#msg67821)
Then the BTCA splashed posters at our opened businesses (liquor & grocery stores) to encourage VISA, debit or some digital payment. "Don't use dirty cash & spread diseases" I got a lot of dirty looks from cashiers using cash b/c most cashiers were systematically brainwashed in believing cash was a vector for spreading Covid (not true). Covid spurred on a huge victory for the cashless folks.
Anyway, when I posted about our dwindling use of cash (in 2019) I was truly hoping for more than 1 response. Thanks @AL-Bob for your reply! :D
I guess the reality is that "nobody cares." Most Canadians assume that technology is AS good as GOLD. They most likely think that getting rid of cumbersome, dirty cash is a non-issue, because "any advancement in tech (such as cashless payments/CC or phone scanning) is a lovely convenience!" It buys us freedom!
Nobody bothers to consider the drawbacks. There's no "big brother," loss of privacy, record # if students going into debt or any talk about who actually benefits from us constantly turning to digital payments. These drawbacks are suppressed (like what we do about the upcoming AI situation). We have enough to worry about (climate change, political turmoil & wars elsewhere) so we bury this stuff.
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I still rely on cash as much as I can due to avoiding service fees for multiple transactions, and I will as long as cash exists. I try to use debit card payments only as a last resort.
I do one withdrawal of an undisclosed amount of cash per payday (it's not too much) with one service fee, as opposed to service fees for five to ten debit transactions.
The one benefit of a demise of cash is that thefts of cash will go down significantly. Taxi scammers in certain provinces, and ATM heists by "backhoe bandits" are all for cash. But if cash reaches its demise, many criminals are going to be very unhappy.
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ATM heists by "backhoe bandits" are all for cash.
:-X
Are you sure about that? My impression was thieves prefer digital (over cash) b/c once they slip you their dummy ATM card (& take yours), they're using your card to drain your savings/checking accounts. From my understanding (what's happening in GTA & Ontario) most thieves prefer the big pay-off (getting into our accounts via the chip in our cards/getting one's PIN#) rather than small change (cash). However, most Youtubers turn the truth upside down & trash cash b/c they've been brainwashed by the crypto crowd. There isn't a day that goes by when we don't see mortgage/home repair or some other fraudulent scheme. It usually involves paper or bilking innocents out of their bank account # (not cash). It's absurd b/c the crypto crowd also rely on their passkey # (or a digital wallet) which can also be hacked.
But it is fantastic that you are still insisting on using cash @AJG! The only way cash remains relevant is if we use it.
Unfortunately, I have the feeling that cash-use is being squeezed out by the Chinese government. If you believe this Youtube "Buildr" report, Chinese cities no longer allow cash to be dispensed from their ATM's! The Central government also regulates what individuals are allowed to use their digital currency on. Watch it here:
https://youtu.be/01r2ntBWQ1E?si=Mcm2qndTa1NvJSr0 (https://youtu.be/01r2ntBWQ1E?si=Mcm2qndTa1NvJSr0)
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Don't some people have daily withdrawal limits on their ATM card? If so, how can those scammers drain someone's account if they have daily withdrawal limits of, say, $400?
And what could happen if I tell the person that the card he gave me isn't mine, and decided to use a cell phone and tell him I am reporting him to the police while I'm still in the car?